Kathi Burns  0:04  
Hi there, I'm board certified professional organizer Kathi Burns. I'm really glad you're here. This podcast is designed for busy entrepreneurs just like you who want to take better control of your business and move forward with less stress and more success. If this is your first time listening then thanks for coming. The Organized Energized podcast is produced for your enjoyment and show notes are found at ThePodcast@OrganizedandEnergized.com. Come back often and feel free to add this podcast to your favorite RSS feed or iTunes. You can also follow me on Twitter at organizing energy and Facebook. All links are in the show notes. Now let's get into the show. Hi, everyone, this is Kathi. I am back with organizing energize podcast and today I'm talking with Dana Kaye White. Dana is the author of decluttering at the speed of life, and the creator of no mess decluttering method. We're here both here today to collaborate and give you a few organizing tips so that you can learn how to declutter at the speed of life. I love it. Hi, Dana. Thanks for coming in.

Dana White  1:11  
Thanks for having me on. This is fun. 

Kathi Burns  1:13  
Yeah, absolutely. So tell me a little bit about how you got into becoming a professional organizer?

Dana White  1:19  
Well, I want to be clear, I am all about decluttering. I am all about the person whose hands are so tight on their stuff that they just can't even imagine letting go. Because that was me. That is actually how I started in doing what I do. Which is in 2009, I was just completely overwhelmed in my home, literally, had tried what I thought was everything and had failed again. And again. I wanted to be a writer because I'm a creative minded person. And I couldn't justify starting a blog when I found out what blogs were I couldn't justify starting because my house was such a disaster, I thought this will just be one more thing that takes my focus away from my home, I've got to get my home under control. So as a compromise, I started what I thought was a temporary secret blog, I made up a fake name and everything, where I just talked about what I was doing in my home what I was not doing, I would try things I would figure out what made an impact what didn't. And as I wrote, I learned that I was most definitely not the only person out there who struggled the way that I did. And I also learned a lot about myself, and that often the things I had read about before the things I had tried, were never going to work for me. And instead, I needed to figure out what did work for me. And it really gave me an appreciation for how my brain is unique. Each brain is unique. And everybody has to figure out how to take what are some basic principles, but learn about them in a way that actually makes sense to them and apply them in their home and in a unique way, and it's gonna look different for everybody.

Kathi Burns  3:05  
Yeah, there's no one way to do anything. I always stress that all the time with my clients. We all think differently. We all react differently. When you started getting your life organized, what was your big obstacle? What did you have to overcome to like, keep going?

Dana White  3:21  
Honestly, my biggest obstacle was that I did not understand that there was a limit to how much stuff I could have in my house. I mean, really, it sounds so silly. And yet, it is actually the thing that I get emails from people all the time. I mean, like many a week, just saying, How did I not understand this either? And I'm like, I know I didn't get it either. I call it the container concept. And what I mean is, I was I really just started out decluttering I thought I was like admitting to failure by just saying I'm just gonna declutter, I don't even I can't even I'm not even at the point where I could organize yet. I'm just gonna declutter. I didn't know they were two separate things. I didn't know that, there was no hope of me being organized, as long as I had as much stuff as I had. So I call it the container concept. I was working one day, I was talking to myself because that's what I do. And I, I was talking, you know, saying the word container and I just went, Wait a minute, a container is meant to contain it's meant to serve as a limit. Literally, never understood that. I thought and I now know that lots of other people think too, that you know, you look at an organized person, they love containers. So I buy containers, I start sticking my stuff in it, and then it's full, and it doesn't look anything like the pictures, you know, on the box. And I would think okay, well, I still got more stuff. So I go buy more containers, and then I go about go buy more containers. And when I realized that it was a limit. It freed me from making value decisions about all of my stuff. I I used to look at each pencil and say, Does this pencil have value? does it deserve to be in my home? Is it you know, and I would ask, well, that takes forever, for every stinking little pencil, right?  And instead, when I realized that the container was the limit, it freed me to go, Oh, I'll have to do is put my favorite pencils in first. And then when it's full, I let go. You know, I mean, like, not know that. And so that is one of the main things I teach. I mean, people ask me questions all the time I do q&a. And I'm like, just so you know, every single question, I well, maybe not every single one 90% of the questions that I get about decluttering start with, well, it all comes down to the container concept, you know, and then the whole one in one out that some people are born knowing I didn't know that. Like I didn't ever it never crossed my mind. I'd actually heard someone say it. And I thought that makes no sense. Why would I get rid of a pair of socks when I bring a new pair of socks in my sock for won't close anyway? I mean, that was how my brain went. And so I was like, right, people were saying these things. And I didn't know what they were talking about, because that's just not how my brain worked. 

Kathi Burns  6:10  
Yeah, wow. Yeah, one in one out a container is a limit. It's so funny how many clients that I run into that, we start working together, and they have zillions of containers, but nothing in them. And they don't have any idea what they're going to do with the containers to begin with. But they love containers. 

Dana White  6:29  
They love containers, because they think that's the answer because they see them being used correctly in an organized person's home. And they think, what's the difference between me and the organized person? They have containers? Yeah, so I'm gonna go buy containers. And, yeah, by the time you get home from the store all that energy to like, I'm gonna change forever, it's all gone. And then those containers are their own clutter.

Kathi Burns  6:51  
Oh, the containers are cluttered. That's, like, they're so cluttered with containers, and they, they aren't even the right size when you come down to wanting to containerize something. So, so yeah, so I love that that's going to be our quote for this podcast. I know, containers mean that you have a limit, therefore, to containerize with the limit. Awesome. So if you if you were going to talk to somebody who was trying to find more freedom within their business and trying to just, get their mojo back, what would you say to them as an entrepreneur yourself?

Dana White  7:25  
You know, it's kind of hard to say this in 2021, because we've all had the weirdest last, it's getting close to two years, which makes my heart hurt. But you know, I mean, it's really collaborating. You know, it, it can feel like, when you have a business, you know, what I do is online, and I want people to come read what I do and watch my videos and stuff. It can feel like it's a competition. But that never actually helps. I mean, having the mindset of competition I had somebody asked me one time, probably four or five years ago, they said, Well, who's your biggest competition? I was like, I don't really see it as competition, because, especially with what I do with information is what I'm sharing information products. Nobody gets all of their information from one source. I mean, you know, if somebody is a novelist, nobody only reads one author, right? You know, if you have any. And so, working with others, even if it's not necessary, I mean, I'm not necessarily saying okay, each person should have five different professional organizers come into their home. That's not what I'm saying. But because of this competition, feeling, sometimes you can not collaborate. And there is so much value in working with people who understand what you do. And I'm having lovely people to bounce ideas off of people to, you know, ask questions. I mean, like, you can go so much farther, if you've got five people who are in a mastermind together. And you've all got five different experiences, and you're all gonna get to skip a whole lot of hard life left lessons by learning them from each other, because you've all learned a life lesson. And now you're five steps ahead of everybody else. And it really, there's just so much value in that and yet there's such a such a, like, stumbling block for a lot of people. And I know for me, I was also like, wait, do I really, oh my goodness, every time I've collaborated with other people, it's just beneficial to my soul and also to my business.

Kathi Burns  9:31  
I totally agree. And that's why I have other organizers on this podcast. I mean, there's so much business and there is no competition and everybody's gonna resonate with different people. And you're right, we don't just read one author, we don't just work with one pro in whatever organization or whatever, consultant that you need. And we all have different things to offer and that's the beauty of life and some people will resonate with two or three different people. Some people will only resonate with one it doesn't matter. The whole point is, how do we help people get over the obstacles that are holding them back from their true worth and their true value? I mean, that's, that's really all we do is we're eliminating obstacles to people success and people's freedom. And, you know, that's, that's what I think that's what most entrepreneurs do. Whenever they start their businesses, they're, they're offering something to the world that will make the world a better place. So yeah, there's, I love that attitude. And I mean, that's what I'm all about, as well. 

Dana White  10:28  
And you want to connect with people who click with you, you know, and so accepting that and realizing that it's going to be more beneficial for them, it's going to be more energizing for you to really connect with the people you click with. You can do that and be more willing to do that when you realize there are some people who are going to click better with other people.

Kathi Burns  10:49  
Yeah, absolutely. I always say that the highest form of professionalism is knowing how to say no and referring out. Become a good big referral mecca for people. So, okay, you and I are both organizers. What do you think is your biggest organizing obstacle in your life? Like, what what have you had to really overcome? I mean, you've said a few things already. But now that you're up and clicking, and you're going going at it, what's the obstacle that you have overcome that you think other people would take advantage? Or learn from?

Dana White  11:25  
So I call it my clutter threshold. And what I mean by that is not sometimes people think, oh, that's how much stuff you like. And I'm like, no, that's not what I'm talking about. I am talking about the point at which I have more stuff than I personally can handle. And I had, I was above my clutter threshold, not knowing that a clutter threshold was a thing, because I hadn't called it that yet, you know, but also just not understanding how all this worked. And that there were limits. And so, yes, there's a limit to space. But there's also a limit for me personally, to be able to manage stuff. And, and taking that into any situation, it's realizing my brain works the way it works. And I'm going to get so much farther, if I accept that, then if I fight against it, and keep trying to do things the way somebody else does it or the way it works. You know, the reason clutter threshold was so clear to me, is that my mother has a very high clutter threshold. Like she grew up on a farm in Oklahoma way far away from town. And she has the mentality that she's got to have everything she could ever need for any situation, but she can keep it under control. So you go into her house, she knows where things are. They're not in piles, everything's neatly put away. She can find it, she puts it back. It's crazy, you know, but yeah, so I, I grew up with this mentality, because it was, you know, passed on to me that that's how you're supposed to be like, that's, it was almost like, I'm not accusing my mother of any I'm just saying like, almost like a moral issue. You know, like, if something was cheaper nail, I should buy it for the future, just in case. I mean, like, it really was like this is this is how it's supposed to be you're supposed to be prepared. And yet, I can't handle that stuff. So I would bring things into my home and it would just be like an explosion that happened because I just couldn't handle it. I couldn't keep it under control. For me, the only answer was have less stuff in my house.

Kathi Burns  13:30  
Well, and you don't live on a farm, right?

Dana White  13:32  
Right. But exactly. I mean, I'm not in that situation. But I well, it's funny, because we have actually moved on to the country now. But I'm still have that mentality that I have to have less like I just do because of my personality because of me and, and accepting that it is. I mean, it'll take you really far.

Kathi Burns  13:53  
Yeah, absolutely. So how I'm so agreeing with that, and we get what we were raised with. My father was Mr. Uber organized and always drove me crazy. And here I am. that's what I do, right? So we don't fall far from the tree. Oftentimes, at the same time, we take that package of what our parents have taught us. And of course, if you're going to live in the country, you're going to probably need to have all this, the Girl Scout idea, right?

Dana White  14:19  
But at the same time, I've also learned not just that, oh, I can go out and buy it, but I can do without I mean, like that is a valid option is to say, Yes, I may have to replace this someday. But there's an even better chance that I'll just make do and figure it out. Because I'm the creative person. Anyway, I was collecting things to be creative, and I actually enjoy more making do i which is you that's a better use of my creative energy.

Kathi Burns  14:46  
Yeah, and you can get really creative when you need something and you can't get it anyhow. So I love that and that actually is really good advice for entrepreneurs. You came upon something really good Dana you know, if you don't have it, try to use your creative instincts to figure out how to do it without. Wow, that's really, really good. That's a good takeaway as well. So, your best pieces of advice for entrepreneurs who want to launch into some new business, what would you tell them?

Dana White  15:16  
Um, I would say that your weakness is your superpower. Because if you, if you're an entrepreneur, your goal is to help people, right? I mean, like, that is actually what a business should do, it should help people. And the person who understands the struggle, and who understands the pain that this problem can cause I believe has a superpower to be able to help others who feel that pain they have understanding, but they also have really had to work through it to be able to help someone. So it's so easy to be like, oh, I want to stay far away from that weakness instead, you know, like, embrace it, figure it out, and then use that in your business.

Kathi Burns  16:12  
That's brilliant. Yeah, I love that. That's very, very good. And it goes back to the thing. That's my belief that for everything you lose you gain. So if you've struggled for years against something and you've tackled it, yeah, that's a great thing to start a business on in. It's your it's really close to your heart and your soul, just like your business. So that's great. Okay, so what's the one thing that I should have asked you that I have not asked you yet?

Dana White  16:38  
 I thought of something good beforehand, and I'm trying to think what was I gonna say?

Kathi Burns  16:45  
Okay, okay, pause on that and talk about tell me about your free resource, and then we can circle back around to it. What are you giving our guests?

Dana White  16:54  
So you mentioned at the beginning, when you said my name about my no mess, decluttering method. So, um, I personally have attention issues a little bit, you know, I get distracted a lot. And then I had kids and started getting distracted even more, you know, I mean, it just, that's just who I am. And my biggest frustration was a lot of people's biggest frustration with decluttering. And that was, it felt like every time I tried to declutter, I ended up with a bigger mess. And so the strategy, the process that I have developed for myself, and then I teach to others, is step by step, progress and only progress, meaning I deal with each item, as I come across it, it goes in the trash bag, or the donate box, or to its home immediately, okay, just so that when I get distracted, I've only made progress and never put myself in a worse situation. So my free resource is that a slob comes clean, calm slash five, FIVE. And that's where you can get my five step decluttering process printable that just I mean, obviously, I have lots more words in the books, but it's just the steps listed out with a very, very tiny little summary of, you know how it works.

Kathi Burns  18:07  
I love that. And that'll be that'll be a direct link below the podcast as well, gang, so you can find that find that link here. Okay, so back circling around, what should I ask you that I didn't ask you? Or maybe nothing? We've covered a broad territory of topic.

Dana White  18:21  
Yeah, I mean, I think one of the things we kind of talked about, I think, before we even started really recording was just the, the power of the internet, you know, because what I do is all I mean, it's, it's 100% online. I go into people's homes, to do YouTube videos, because that allows not just the one person to benefit but also the 1000s and 1000s, who watch it, you know, I mean, like so. So it allows me to expand my business. That's one of the major powers of the internet is it really allows scaling in a way that I don't know that it's ever been possible before the internet. I mean, it's just amazing how many people you can reach now.

Kathi Burns  19:11  
Yeah, it's insane and amazing. And you're rocking it, girl. So I'm just really honored and pleased that you took the time to be on this podcast. I know that everybody will benefit from this. Make sure to download your free report from Dana. And until then, I will see you all next week. Thanks gang.

Hey, thanks for listening to this podcast. I hope you enjoyed this episode. And if you want to hear more, feel free to subscribe on the platform of your choice. Also, if you feel so inclined, I would truly appreciate a good rating from you, to me. Have a stellar day.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai