How To Find Resilience In The Face Of Adversity with Rodney Flowers

[00:00:00] Kathi Burns: Hi there. I'm board certified professional organizer Kathi Burns. I'm really glad you're here. This podcast is designed for busy entrepreneurs just like you, who wanna take better control of your business and move forward with less stress and more success. If this is your first time listening, then thanks for coming. The Organized Energized Podcast is produced for your enjoyment and show notes are found at ThePodcast@OrganizedandEnergized.com. Come back often and feel free to add this podcast to your favorite RSS feed or iTunes. You can also follow me on Twitter at Organized Energy and Facebook. All links are in the show notes. Now, let's get into the show.

Hi everyone, girls and guys out there. Today I am talking to Rodney Flowers. You're gonna love this podcast because he's a professional podcaster himself. So of course it's gonna be a great interview. But basically I wanna tell you a little bit of background about Rodney. He's a man who defies all odds. He was set up to be an NFL pro star, and until the age of 15 where he had an accident, he became completely paralyzed from a football injury. Doctor said he'd never walk again, but guess what? Rodney didn't give up and said he made a conscious decision to transform his destiny and step by step with faith, perseverance and a game changing mindset he achieved his goal. Today, he's no longer confined to a wheelchair. He's an internationally recognized author, business keynote speaker, resilience trainer, coach, and master facilitator. I am so excited to have him on the show. You're gonna love this interview, so we're gonna talk about adversity, how to overcome adversity, how to create innovative solutions to tough problems that you have in your life. We're gonna talk to him now, so buckle up and we'll jump into the podcast just after this. 

Hi, everyone. I'm back, and as I told you, I am with Rodney Flowers today and I'm excited to get into it and get talking about how to get motivated and energized with this gentleman. Hi Rodney. Thanks for being on the show.

[00:02:10] Rodney Flowers: Kathi, hello. Thank you for having me on the show. Glad to be here. 

[00:02:14] Kathi Burns: Absolutely. We're gonna talk about changing the game and being a game changer and all that good golly stuff, But let's hear some background. Okay. I know you've got this fantastic journey that you've been on. Tell me a little bit about what your folks did when you grew up and then what happened to you in your youth.

[00:02:30] Rodney Flowers: My parents were, working class individuals. My dad worked at a grocery store. My mom was an ophthalmologist and we were just, middle class, working, fun, loving people. We loved the game of football. At least I did. And because I did everyone else in the house did, cause it was the center of my attention. And it was something that I developed a love for and I had their following and their support. And it was a thing I wanted to pursue. And I was in high school, just to keep the story sort of short, doing what I love to do. And it was the first game of my sophomore year is my first game of season. And, I went out, we were having a great game. I was having a great game. And around the beginning of the third quarter we kicked the ball off the start, the second half. And I ran down the field to make a tackle and I hit a guy as hard as I could and, I went down, he went down and I couldn't get back up. And coming to find out I had a spinal cord injury, I couldn't move anything from the neck down. Doctor said I was gonna be paralyzed for the rest of my life. And if you can imagine, this gosh its been such a long time now and I'm so over it. But it was a very devastating moment in my life, to be honest with you. And it was a, it was life changing. It was game changing and all the things. And it put me in a place where I had to make some decisions and I didn't have many options, to be honest with you. You know how when your back is up against the wall and you either got a fight or you die, essentially. And that's what it really felt like for me because here I was a 15 year old kid, very active and loving life and have my whole life ahead of me. And then all of a sudden in one game, one moment I'm on the field, motionless can't move. And doctors are saying, There's nothing that they could do. And so life, that's where this journey started. That's where this whole game changer mentality started because essentially I gave up, didn't wanna live, thought about suicide several times. And through a series of events that we can talk about throughout the show I made some critical decisions about what I wanted to do with my life. I think the most pivotal moment is when I realized that my accident was a gift. And I became grateful for it. And I really wanna talk about that cause I know there's a lot of people that are dealing with, maybe not things that are as traumatizing as that, but we're dealing with challenges. We all deal with challenges. And I think even though I, I went through, a spot cord injury, I think we all have that theme in our lives that it can either make us or break us. And I think, it's those things that we have to change our perspective about it, and we can talk about that because changing that perspective, becoming grateful for the activity or the the accident and seeing the opportunity in that and seeing where it can take me. Seeing how this challenge, this thing was, something that wasn't happening to me was it was actually something happening for me, but I had to change. I didn't need the situation to change. I had to change. And then when I changed, everything changed. All right. And so we can dive into that as well, but that's essentially the backstory. The long story is, I was in a wheelchair for 18 years. I turned my life around. I, was able to walk again. After 18 years, wrote a book about it, wrote three books, and I am a game changer and I teach people how to change the game in their life and in their business. Then that's why I'm here.

[00:05:49] Kathi Burns: I think that's fantastic backstory. And the fact that you said, I'm so over it cuz you are, and it's gratitude. I love the fact that you're weaving in gratitude for that because if you're grateful for everything that happens to you, then it can become a blessing even though it's a crazy thing like that. What I was thinking when you were speaking was people that are up against obstacles can become paralyzed. And you literally became paralyzed. But even a lot of people that they're facing that big obstacle, they become paralyzed and then they're unable to move forward or even able to see anything. When you pivoted over to gratitude, and so you were in the wheelchair for 18 years, where was the shift? What happened at that point? Let's talk about part two.

[00:06:30] Rodney Flowers: Great. That's a great question. That's a really great question. And the reason why that's a great question is because it was 18 years after I made the decision. It wasn't instant gratification. It wasn't instant, oh my God, I made a decision and now the next day I'm able to walk again. This has been a journey. And so just to back up a little bit. I came to that decision by one day, lying in my bed hurting. If you can imagine, it's about a year later, I'm still in this place where I want to give up. I don't wanna live and I don't like life. I, yeah, I'm not loving life at all. I'm actually hating life right now. For a number of things because my body is, I can't move. It's not just the accident. There's a lot of things that come, paralysis. Then when your body can't move, we gotta take all types of medications. People have to do all types of things to you multiple times a day throughout the night. I mean everything, your sleep, your eating, there's certain things you can't eat, certain things you can't eat. They have to help you with every single thing. It was just the most devastating thing to just to live through. You almost just wanna die just to get all of that over. And so one day I'm lying in bed out of many days, crying. Feeling like I'm suffering, feeling like there's no reason to really live. And I began to ask myself a series of questions. And those questions were, Hey Rodney, why? Why are you hurting? And I wasn't in pain. And so it was humorous cuz I was really being comical with myself. Cause I'm like you, you're crying, you're sitting here crying. You cry every night. You've been crying. You cried yesterday and you cried today. You cried the day before and you probably go to cry tomorrow. What's up? I wasn't crying cause I was in pain and it was funny because I couldn't feel anything anyway. You know what I mean? So I couldn't feel pain cause I couldn't, but I was in pain cause I was in emotional pain. My spirit was broken. And I'm like, okay, we literally can't kill ourselves because we don't, we're not physically capable of doing it. 

So it's okay, so we gotta change this misery. What can we do to change it? What if you tried, if did what the therapist wanted you to do, what if put forth, really put forth an effort, would that change anything? And to be honest with myself, the answer was yes. It would change some things. And then I started, I kept going. I said, Okay If that changed, then you reached some level of success. What if you were able to feed yourself or dress yourself, or, maybe you had some level of independence with something some activities of daily living would that make you feel better? And the answer was yes. And so I kept going. I kept asking these, what if questions? What if? And I got all the way up to what if you were able to overcome this by some means and start walking, what would that do to for you. And that was it. Because that became bigger than anything. It became bigger than football, became bigger than anything that I wanted to accomplish in life. And I wanted to accomplish that because I was like, If I do that, then life is Oh my God, I went from this guy that was crying every day. So the life is just horrible to the guy that overcame. And how is that gonna affect other people and all the things. Wow. So this is an opportunity here. This is what I have. And so if I wake up every day and I try that, and even if I miss, if I don't hit the target, I'm gonna be so much further than where I am right now that it probably won't even matter. And I'll have something right and it won't be where I am right now. There's no way I can give it everything. And even if I did, at least I know I tried everything that I could and I can live with myself without crying every night, right? And so that became the reason why I woke up every day. It became the reason why I work hard. It became the reason why I did everything. I started to study. I started to learn. I started to figure out how can I heal myself. How can I make this happen? And I committed to it every single day.

So fast forward 18 years later, that's when I experienced it and it was very, Thank you. Thank you. It was very progressive, however slow. Okay. It wasn't something that happened immediately. You're talking 18 years before actually being able to walk without a wheelchair. And I still use canes, so it wasn't like I was able to run, but that was miraculous. And the life that I live now as a result of that decision is game changing. It's amazing. And so I'm grateful because I'm here. Like I wouldn't be on this podcast had I not made that decision. I wouldn't have touched the lives that I've touched. Had I not made that decision, I wouldn't be the person that I am had I not made that decision. So in my mind, something happened for me that allowed me to be who I am today. To touch to people, to experience what I experienced, to gain knowledge to everything is a game. And one may think you lost so much. Okay. There's some validity to that. There's, I can't run I don't do the things that I used to do, but I've gained a whole lot more than I've lost a whole lot more. And now I don't know what that life before, without the accident would have taken me. But I'm happy with this one and I'm grateful for where I am right now. And I really believe that it savedme. And I think when we look at the challenges that we face in life, that's how we gotta think about that.

Sometimes we think things are happening to us or it's preventing us, but I believe that the universe, God is a lot more clever and smart than we are. And I think it understands where we need to be, where it wants us to be and what it has for. And sometimes we are not smart enough to take those directions on our own. And sometimes we need those challenges, those little mountains in life that cause us to turn directions or those huge trees in our paths that causes us to change directions. And we have to be grateful for them because those are the things that causes us to grow, causes us to look at things at a different perspective, right? And so let's be grateful for those things that show up because those are the things that you know, allows us to build that mental, emotional, and spiritual muscle. Cause without those, we just, we're not people that just naturally go and exercise those types of things. We like things. We're creatures of habit. If it stays the same and it's working. We'll just keep doing it every single day.

[00:12:44] Kathi Burns: Absolutely. And it's so ironic every time I film these podcasts the whole month seems to have be a recurring theme. And for those of you who have been listening for the past few weeks, we have the recurring theme of resilience. We have the recurring theme of obstacles help us to expand. And expansion is what life's all about. And life is a game, and we should not take it so seriously. So it's the universe saying it again and again to me and to the audience, you know what you're saying. It's been said so many times in this past month, it's awesome. So that's what it's about. And I think that God doesn't give this any more than we can take, and I do believe that is in an expansion mechanism. I've been reading Michael j Fox's book just recently and it's a similar thing. This is a gift every obstacle is a gift that we've been given. And some are huge gifts like yours, some are smaller gifts. But I think anybody out there listening has to know that if you're up against something, look at it with gratitude and grace and say, What am I able to learn from this? And you're the walking, talking spirit of that Rodney. So I just love this story.

[00:13:48] Rodney Flowers: Thank you. And I believe in addition to all of that, that we go through things not only for ourselves. We go through things for those around us. Yeah, we all have something to contribute, but the thing about the thing that we have to contribute, it has to be cultivated. It has to be, it has to grow, it has to be developed, and a lot of times the things that we don't want to do are the things that we need to do to allow our contribution to come forward in a major way, in an impactful way. And growth and being resilient are those, they're great words, but they're very uncomfortable things. They're nice things to say, but when you're in the thick of it and you're actually growing, like we don't run the growth. A lot of times we run away from our growth. We run away from challenge. We don't like adversity. We want it to go away. And it takes a different mindset to welcome it to say bring it on. Yeah, but that's the game changing mentality. Because when you're willing to run to the challenge, when you're willing to run to the adversity, what you're really saying is, I'm ready to grow. What you're saying is, I'm ready to get to the next level. I'm ready to not run away from this challenge, but actually overcome it. And that requires not the thing to change, but me to change. 

[00:15:03] Kathi Burns: I think it's a curiosity factor too. What am I supposed to be learning here? And being curious about it and being the observer, I think taking a step back and looking at what you're up against will help you as well. Just being an expectation of what am I supposed to be learning here? There's gotta be something. And I agree. Sometimes it's just not that easy to peg. What's the lesson? 

[00:15:26] Rodney Flowers: We have to look for the creative opportunity. That's the thing you wanna look for. Every challenge comes with it. The seed of opportunity. However, we have to be able to see it and sometimes we are distracted by the difficulty or the pain or the change or the, the distraction. I wanted to go there and that's what my heart in my head was set on. But this challenge is causing you to look in this direction or the, to look in a different direction and the direction that you weren't even thinking. But perhaps if we take that step back, like you said, and then look for the creative opportunity, because within that change and that adversity, it could be that you can get to a place that's bigger, better, and greater than where you want to go, but you're so fixated on where you wanna go. So we have to disattach from that theme and then look at the thing that's possible, right? If we change and if we grow with the adversity that we have. And a lot of times what we find is that the opportunity is way bigger and more impactful and more effective than the destination that we had in mind in the first place. Or we can get there faster, or it's not a place that we needed to be in the first place. God has something else for you. And so we just have to be willing to flow with that. We have to be willing to grow with that. And another thing is, a question that I would ask myself because every day wasn't a peachy day. There were times where things were really hard, even after making the decision that this is what I wanted to do. I still had moments, I still had moments that I wanted to give up, right? But I would always ask myself, how is this way that I'm feeling, how is this way that I'm acting, serving? How was it serving me? And where I want to go and what I wanna do, and the decision that I made, how was that serving the greater good? How is it serving the end game? And that was a way for me to just level, set, reset, and maintain that resilience like, and just recover from. Because you're gonna have those moments. When I ask myself, how is that serving mean? If it wasn't aligned with where I went to go, it's Okay, we can't we just can't stay here long. This perspective that we have is not serving us this thought about this is not serving us, it isn't. It sucks that we're here, but what's the creative opportunity? What is there to do that's gonna serve us, that's gonna allow us to move? 

[00:17:45] Kathi Burns: And any kind of expansion brings pain. And I think that's a great question for us to always ask ourselves is how is it however we're reacting, how is this serving us? Is this serving me by doing this? And expansion is painful always. Oftentimes we go into a kicking and screaming, but I do believe I am in a complete agreement with you, Rodney. Anything that we are overcoming it's a God gift that it's like, Okay, now I get it. Now I see that plateau that I would've never even seen. It wasn't even in my vision or perspective. So I totally agree with you on that. Actually I had to ask you another question. How many siblings do youhave?

[00:18:20] Rodney Flowers: I have one, I have a younger sister. 

[00:18:22] Kathi Burns: Okay. Okay. So you were the role model for your sis. What a blessing that is. 

[00:18:28] Rodney Flowers: I think she was more of a role model for me. In
 my book I talk about her in my book, Get Up, and my sister played a pivotal role in maintaining this decision that I made. One thing about my sister that I really appreciate and there's so many things I appreciate about her, but after I got hurt, and I came home and life was continuing on. The one thing that was consistent with her is that, she still expected me to be her big brother. 

[00:18:54] Kathi Burns: She expected what? 

[00:18:56] Rodney Flowers: To be her big brother. That was, it didn't matter, it was no, you couldn't get out of being my big brother. Yeah, you need, you gotta figure that out. You still have to be the big brother. That for me, was motivating and inspiring. I didn't have a get outta jail free card. It wasn't that I could use this as a crutch or use this as a way out from, what, my responsibilities were in life. And I talk about that in, in my book because, to see her maintaining that expectation caused me to say, Hey, bro, every day, you got something. Like you don't have time to be sitting around here having a pity party. Life goes on and so you gotta keep going. You gotta get up. As I talk about in the book, you gotta get up and you gotta get up every single day. 

[00:19:40] Kathi Burns: What a great gift, huh? She's you're not getting out of this. I've only got one brother, man. And you're gonna be the big brother. 

[00:19:47] Rodney Flowers: That's it. That's it. 

[00:19:49] Kathi Burns: That's fantastic. Love her, love her already. That's great. What should we talk about next? What do you have to say to people? What have I not asked you that we really wanna touch on and we wanna talk about your company and your book as well and bring it on? 

[00:20:07] Rodney Flowers: I would just say, more of what we talked about earlier, the game changer here is not allowing circumstances and situations to dictate who you are.

[00:20:18] Kathi Burns: We are who we are. 

[00:20:19] Rodney Flowers: That's just what it is. And then being okay with uncertainty. Being okay with not knowing, when it's going to end or when the healing is gonna come, when the money is gonna come, when the clients are gonna come, being willing to stay in it. I truly believe that it's the process that's the most valuable thing in life. It's not the destination, it's not the goal, the destination. That's just the means, that's just the end game, but it's the process. And going through that process of growth and staying in it. I'm in it right now. I keep myself in a state of growth and development. It never ends. It's never gonna stop. You're never gonna get to a place where you're not feeling some level of adversity, uncertainty, fear, all the things. Because when you are dealing with those things, what's happening is you're growing. And when you stop that, to me, if you're not growing, You're not really living. That's the definition of life for me, is to be growing, to be dealing with some type of challenge, to be trying to get better, get to a next level, be more impactful, be more expressive, be more of a contributor, express more of myself. It takes challenge. It takes adversity. It takes growth to do those things. And I feel challenged. No different than the air that we breathe. It's a natural, necessary part of life. And when we can view it that way, we have that perspective about it. When it shows up, it's okay. We don't get upset about air, we don't get upset about water. Because that's just what it is. It's just there. So why do we get upset about challenges? Because if we can have that mentality around the challenge, we welcome it and then we know it's there for our good, not for our detriment. It's for the good, and it relieves so much stress when you can view it in that light. It's Oh, okay. It's anything else. Riding a bike, driving a car. At one point you weren't able to do it, and then you went through the process of learning how to do it. Now I know that's this very simplified version of some of the challenges that we're facing out here. However, the principles remain the same.

[00:22:19] Kathi Burns: And they say that we weren't supposed to walk anyhow. It's like a accidental step of falling forward and catching ourselves. We all overcame that at some point, most of us. And you overcame it twice. If we're not expanding, we might as well just take a nap and, get on with it. I think that's why a lot of us are entrepreneurs. We love that challenge. We love that expansion. Never stop learning. Never stop trying to overcome. And goodness knows that's what businesses are for, is to keep us on our feet and keep us on our game and keep us from just, being passive.

[00:22:49] Rodney Flowers: I love the title of your book, How to Master Your Muck. And I really believe that's what we're talking about here, right? It is either the muck is either gonna master you or you're gonna master it. The one thing that we all have in common. Black, white, rich, poor, don't matter what your nationality is, we're all gonna face challenges. The difference is how we manage that. How do we master that? How do we handle the challenges that come down? That's the key. And so when it comes to those things and you're dealing with a challenge. The question is, who are you being in your challenge? Who are you being in your challenge has nothing to do with the challenge, right? Everything to do with you.

[00:23:27] Kathi Burns: It's about being versus doing as well. Looking at the being part of you is so much more important than the doing part of you when you're up against something. And I love the fact of how is this serving me or how is this serving those around me the way that I'm behaving or whatever. I think that's a really good thing to keep in mind. For sure. What's the best piece of advice that you ever received that's on the top of your mind, as you've been living life?

[00:23:51] Rodney Flowers: I would say I've learned that there's this outter world. There's two worlds. So there's two worlds for me. There's the outer world and there's the inner. I can't control what goes on in that outer world. Some things in the economy, the challenges, covid, things like that. I can't control that, but what I can control is myself. You prefer to say, life is, what is it? It's not 90, it's 90, what? 10%? What happens to you in 90%, wow you respond to it. That's a very true statement. Because things are gonna happen in life. It's who you're gonna be when those things happen. 

[00:24:33] Kathi Burns: Absolutely. I'm doing an expanded consciousness course and I heard about the four kingdoms. In Kingdom one is, everything happens to me. I have no control, and everything happens to me. That's Kingdom one, and that's a place where we don't really wanna all be living in. So we gotta get outta the kingdom one, going to Kingdom two, where I can control, I can manifest, I can get that. Just something as silly as I can get that parking space. Which we've all done at one time or the other, cuz that's the easy stuff, and so moving forward. But I thought that was an interesting, I had never heard of the kingdoms before. It was interesting to me. I don't know if you've ever familiar with the concept.

[00:25:07] Rodney Flowers: I'm familiar with the principle, and I believe that, like you said. You can't control everything that happens outside, but it's the inner world. When you can gain control of that inner world, when you can gain control of your emotions, when you can master your emotions, master self. We can conquer any challenge that shows up. You can handle any and everything that's going on in that other world because your inner world is solid. And to me, again, that's the game changer. You wanna change the game. You don't change it from the outside in. You change it from the inside out.

[00:25:41] Kathi Burns: Ah, very well spoken. You're a master at this. You are the game changer King here. So I just so appreciate having you on the show and I know that everybody that's out there listening is, wants to pick up a copy of the Game Changer and wants to read more cuz your story is amazing. I just love your sister. I wanna meet your sister. She sounds awesome. 

[00:26:03] Rodney Flowers: She is she's awesome, man. She played a pivotal role in my recovery, and she still plays a major role in who I am today. I'm grateful for her. She's been nothing short of supportive for me and the rest of my family, so I'm a grateful.

[00:26:15] Kathi Burns: And ditto that. If she any time she has something that she's up again, she's still be thinking right back at you and saying this is how Rodney did it. This is what Rodney did, And he is walking, so I got nothing to squawk about over here, I'm sure. Okay. Rodney, I have to ask this cuz I ask almost every guest this question. What do you do to keep yourself organized and energized as you go throughout your day or your week of work. 

[00:26:41] Rodney Flowers: I have a routine that I stick to and that includes waking up at 4:00 AM every day. And yep, going down taking a drink of juice. I do juicing every single day where I juice my fruits and vegetables and then I go to the gym. And so I'm drinking my juice around 4:30am. I'm in the gym around five, and I work out for a couple of hours, and then I take my protein. And then I spend about an 30, 30 to 45 minutes in the sauna or just meditate, listening to something that's very empowering, that's gonna put some positive thoughts and words into my mind. And just taking that in and visualizing, my visions, the things that I want to accomplish in life, how I want my day to go. And then I shower and I have breakfast, and then I start my day. And so that routine in the morning has been a staple for me for, over a decade. I believe it's really helped me. One of the compliments I get is that, you're calm you're very calm. You have this very calm demeanor about you. And I think it's that morning ritual that has helped me maintain that level of calmness because I get a lot of mental strength and it's something that I can go to every single day. And I believe that, there's two things we need to think about when we're leaving our living our lives. We need to think about the energy that we're putting out and the energy that we're putting in. For me, that's my energy in time. And it's something that I did early in the morning, when I wake up. I get to feel myself up before I start putting myself out. If that makes sense. And so I'm up. So sometimes, we get up and we just start putting out, we just start putting out, we just start producing, giving giving. And we haven't had time to fill up. And so for me, I like to live by this thing that I learned from Lisa Nichols. She's talked about giving from your overflow. You wanna give from your saucer. So if you can imagine a cup that's sitting on a saucer and things have, the cup is so full that is, is overflowing onto the saucer. That's what you give. What's in the cup, that's yours. But I like to fill myself up so much that I have overflow into the saucer so I can give that part away to folks, to my job, to my clients, to whomever that may need it. But I gotta stay full. And that's my way of staying full. 

[00:28:55] Kathi Burns: That's a great routine. So I have to ask though, were you always a morning person? 

[00:28:59] Rodney Flowers: Yes, always a morning person. I love the mornings. I love just getting up before things starts to move and having that time to fill up before the day gets going. So I've always had that mindset, I was raised that way. I'm a country boy from North Carolina, so we were up when the chicken started making noise, and the rooster started, doing its thing. It is time to get up, it's time, we're late if we're hearing that. And so we have to get up before, the sun came up to work on the farm. And so I'm used to that. I love it. And it has really made a difference in my life as I've gotten older. 

[00:29:31] Kathi Burns: What a blessing to grow up on a farm too. So I can totally see that the rooster starts and then you're like, Okay, how you gotta get up? Gotta get up. Feed those chickens, roosters, say feed them. That's a great tip. I think this so important that we all have a morning routine no matter what it is, and it should definitely or shouldn't, should anybody. It always helps to have quiet time as part of that, where you're not really tuned into anything but yourself and your inner consciousness that will allow us to have that cup overflowing, so to speak. So thanks for sharing that. Everybody, I'm sure we have our morning routine. If you don't have a morning routine, think about what might really for you best. I heard that if you go out in the sun for five minutes every morning, that's also really good for resetting your brain, the synopsis in your brain, start firing. And that's just going outside. Thank you so much for being on the show. I just appreciate it. It's nice having you as a co-member of the EBC as well. That's how we got to know each other and we are both evolutionary and loving it and I can't wait to see you hopefully coming up soon.

[00:30:38] Rodney Flowers: Yes, we'll be at the the annual retreat that's coming up in January. And if you guys haven't got your tickets, you definitely wanna get your tickets. We're gonna be talking about surfing the waves of change and so how do we do that? And hope to see you and many of your, the folks that are listening there in January.

[00:30:54] Kathi Burns: I'm gonna put the link down below. Rodney's gonna be one of our speakers, and it is the end of January here in San Diego. Hope to see all of you. Check it out. The Evolutionary Business Council full of like minded people just like us and you out there listening. So thanks so much for being on the show, Rodney. I really appreciate it. And we're gonna call this winter wrap. 

[00:31:13] Rodney Flowers: Thank you.

[00:31:15] Kathi Burns: Have a good one.

Hey, thanks for listening to this podcast. I hope you enjoyed this episode, and if you wanna hear more, feel free to subscribe on the platform of your choice. Also, if you feel so inclined, I would truly appreciate a good rating from you to me. Have a stellar day.